Rear recovery eyes

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Re: Rear recovery eyes

Postby ermie571 » 17 Feb 2014, 10:36

right....I have nothing on the back of the syncro other that the westy tow bar. No bumper (there's a spare in the garage, but it cam without and I quite like the look of it that way!)

so....what do I need to have a proper rear towing/recovery point?

answers in words of one "silly bull" for the hard of thinking please!! :rofl

Is it a case of takeing the tow bar off and giving it to someone so it comes back with what it is needed affixed to it....Or does the eye thingy (technical or what??) bolt alongside the tow bar??

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Re: Rear recovery eyes

Postby silverbullet » 17 Feb 2014, 13:46

Tom, It all depends on whether you want the OEM-style loops (forming & welding costs, carriage etc all tbc, especially for the substantial mass of the Westy towbar, which will be most of the cost) or...I can work out a bolt-on option that will work and be safe. I am uncertain if the latter is achievable, tbh.

Lab experiment first, results to follow.
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Re: Rear recovery eyes

Postby poshbuggers » 17 Feb 2014, 13:51

Latter would be best for me.

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Re: Rear recovery eyes

Postby toomanytoys » 17 Feb 2014, 19:41

Gonna struggle with a bolt on option for the westy tow bar I am afraid.... hence why I came u with my soluton....
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Re: Rear recovery eyes

Postby silverbullet » 18 Feb 2014, 20:56

Damn. Mate's garage press doesn't have a tonnage gauge! Off to try local tame garage next...
EDIT Indeed Si. I suspect that the weld-on options may be the only viable ones.
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Re: Rear recovery eyes

Postby toomanytoys » 18 Feb 2014, 21:49

I would think if you want to "strain it" then there is a massive difference between a steady increase in load (ie a press) and and instant shock load from a snatch..

steady increase will give an indicatio of course..

possibly figure in an initial settle point.. then re apply the same force... to see if any futher deflectikn occurs...
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Re: Rear recovery eyes

Postby silverbullet » 18 Feb 2014, 22:46

I agree. But with no data to start with its all guesswork and unfounded opinion.
It seems that these days we are getting a long way from the original design brief for the syncro (whatever that was precisely; anyone got a press release?), but there is no reason why we cant push its capabilities if we take a measured approach and test our ideas by applying sound principles i.e. not rushing into making parts or modifying, just because people get keen.
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Re: Rear recovery eyes

Postby silverbullet » 19 Feb 2014, 09:32

I think that further reading on the load behaviour of dynamic ropes is needed. If they are anything like climbing ropes, which are designed to absorb energy and reduce the load spike on anchor points, we should be ok.
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Re: Rear recovery eyes

Postby toomanytoys » 19 Feb 2014, 14:58

Ah.. dynamic rope etc.. thats another discussion..

only thing to do is to factor in some abuse... ie doing things it wasnt designed for.. its why I used some high tensile material rather than some std round bar..

as an old chap I used to work with used to say.....
"You can always trust a good idiot to fugger it up"
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Re: Rear recovery eyes

Postby silverbullet » 19 Feb 2014, 18:43

I kind of assumed that no-one in their right mind would try using static ropes to perform a snatch. Thats just asking for things to go *pop* closely followed by *whizz* and *bang*

"Standard bar" Si? Such vague terms... ;-)
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Re: Rear recovery eyes

Postby toomanytoys » 19 Feb 2014, 21:58

Just meant a bit of round bar from a stockholders/gate make/whas lying aboutr etc etc...
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Re: Rear recovery eyes

Postby silverbullet » 20 Feb 2014, 09:13

Little tease? Oh yeah, anything from a farm supplies is going to be massive but at the prices they charge, wont be high tensile steel. After all, hanging a 5 bar gate is what that kind of stuff is fit for and nothing else.
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Re: Rear recovery eyes

Postby syncroandy » 20 Feb 2014, 10:37

Just seen this. Whilst I don't disagree that towing and recovery are different things, I'm not clear how Al is in a position to make the assertion that the rear loop was not intended for recovery.

I personally don't have a direct line to VW T3 designers, nor am I an engineer. However it seems to me that for a towing scenario, VW provided the front-fitted steel strap, and for a recovery scenario (vehicle needs pulling from a ditch into which its just been driven) they provided the rear-fitted 'eye' made in a much more substantial way to the towing loop at the front.

Were one to set out to design a bolt-on recovery point for the rear of a T3, I really can't see how one would significantly improve on the 'westie towbar'. Personally I think it serves as good starting point for the type of attachment that Simon TMT and Ian are proposing.

v-lux wrote:They are not recovery eyes.

They are towing loops.

Recovery and towing....very different things.....
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Re: Rear recovery eyes

Postby v-lux » 20 Feb 2014, 13:00

You're correct Andy, I'm not qualified or party to information regarding the design of those loops which is why in my other comment I said that I don't profess to be an expert. But one could assume that westfalia not being a manufacturer dealing with things "offroad" that they would have designed them for the road going market.

Whatever the case it's all horses for courses. As has been said, they're probably more than enough for most people.

As long as whatever people are bolting to their vans is safe for the use/abuse it will be given then its all good.
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Re: Rear recovery eyes

Postby silverbullet » 20 Feb 2014, 21:23

"Reasonable usage" has got to be the #1 disclaimer oxymoron!
Picture this: Design recovery eye for offroad usage. Put fully laden Westy up to hubs in clay mud at pay n play site. Get hitched up to friendly AWDC type in Russian 6×6 for recovery.
You just know whats going to break first...
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